Interview
with Gladys Hughes
Intercultural communication has come
such a long way from sixty years ago to today. This type of communication
generally refers to interaction among people of diverse cultures in the United
States today (Jandt, 2013). This interview was done with Gladys Hughes who is
of African American decent and also is half black foot Indian and states she
was raised strictly as a lighter skinned African American. She often questioned
why her Blackfoot Indian heritage was never spoke about. Her date of birth is January 8, 1933. She is
currently 82 years young. She became my mother in law two years on July 9, 2012
when I married her son. She was raised by both her parents with her mother
being a stay at home mom and her father worked on the railroad. He was also the
Methodist Minister for their community. Gladys Hughes belongs to a different
subgroup from me considering her cultural experiences are very different from
my own, since I am much younger than her and also of Caucasian decent. Gladys
had so many interesting experiences to tell about growing up and communicating
in Hamlet North Carolina being a light skinned African American during
segregation and integration times in her life and how different things are
today.
Our interview began by Gladys
telling me how far back in time she can remember considering her subculture of
being a lighter skinned African American growing up in Hamlet North Carolina
during segregation times. Her first memory was when she was about five growing
up in their segregated community of only African Americans in a twelve bedroom
house that her father and grandfather built with the help of other community
members. Gladys also stated that she remembers that the Caucasian and African
Americans did not communicate or live in the same community at this point yet
in her life and they only saw other cultures and races when going into town. When
I asked how this made her feel, she stated it was just her way of life and all
she knew. Gladys stated that she would want to talk to people in town but was
not allowed and they all knew it as their way of life. (Hughes, personal
communication, 2015). Communication at
this time played a role in spreading this separation of Caucasian and African
Americans when it could have stopped long before it was. This type of prejudice
is commonly viewed as being rooted in the child’s early socialization and
fostered in communication with other people who feel the same way (Jandt,
2013). Her father was the minister in the only church that was there growing up
and also only had one school where all the children attended from Kindergarten
to grade twelve. During this time period when Gladys was a little girl
overcoming being just one religion in an African American community, the face
of racial obstacles such as achieving true religious integration between
African Americans and Caucasians seemed nearly impossible at this point to her
and was rarely talked about (Hughes, personal communication, 2015). This could
only be achieved at this point by redefining the bases of shared identity among
members and focusing on idealized religious commitments (Marti, 2010). This
would not come till much later in Gladys life when entering her late teenage
and young adult years she stated.
After asking Gladys what she
remembered of her experiences of being an African American of that time period
of her growing up, she stated it was all she knew and we did not question it.
Gladys stated that she thought about change and wondered what would it would be
like if she communicated more about her feelings. She stated as a child she
always wanted to talk to the people in town and did not understand at the time
why she could not. Gladys was always hushed when she would start asking
questions about why they could not communicate with the other people in town.
She wondered what the churches in town would be like to go to and would try and
peak in as they walked by. On Saturdays, when her family and she went into
town, Gladys remembers that she really did not have contact with the Caucasian
people there. She spoke of not being
allowed to eat at the same places as them and if she was buying any type of
clothing they had to purchase them and leave right away. Gladys stated how
unhappy it made her that she was not allowed to try on the clothing like the
Caucasian people in town. Gladys stated when she would go into the dime stores
as they called them back then, which today would be a rite aid or CVS, there
were counters where you could order and sit down and eat food. Her subgroup of
African American decent was not allowed to do this. They could only purchase
the items they needed and leave right away. Gladys stated that she would always
go home and pretend she was trying on the clothing and shoes with her friends
like they were in the dime store.
(Hughes, personal communication, 2015). This was stereotyping that was
used against African Americans back then, because Caucasian people had a
contamination fear from communicating this in their subgroup for so long and it
spread around. This is that feeling of having been polluted or infected as a
result of contact, direct or indirect, with a person that is perceived to be
soiled, impure, infectious, or harmful (Olatunji, Tomarken, Zhao, 2014). This
was huge Gladys stated when she was growing up. These beliefs have been proven
to be just that, beliefs and attitudes about cleanliness that emerged out of
fear that communicating among themselves started. Gladys stated she would
hear them talk of her giving them germs as she walked by or even saw them move
out of her way which made her very sad at times.
Gladys has very vivid experiences
from that time that have stayed with her today. She stated that her experiences
have given her great character and made her who she is today. She has the
fondest memories and experiences of her grandfather being the first African
American heart surgeon in Hamlet North Carolina. This was a big thing back then
because African Americans were only allowed to do certain jobs in that area for
years Gladys stated. She and her sisters would go see her grandfather anytime
they were sick or pretty much had anything wrong with them. He became very
popular in the community as being a very good doctor and surgeon. People
eventually would come from all over to get his care, Gladys stated. Gladys
stated that she is very proud of her grandfather’s accomplishments and they are
now naming a school after him in that community in the next few months in his
honor. Gladys also remembers her experience of being one of a few African
American girls in her community to actually go to college. When I asked her why
she choose teaching, Gladys stated that back then, they were only allowed to be
nannies, maids, or teach. There was not many careers to choose from so she
choose teaching. Her father saved all his hard earned money and Gladys said he
could handle his money very well. Her father was able to send her from his
years of savings. From this experience she gained much learning about different
cultures, communication and how other people learn. Gladys stated she felt
lucky to be able to go to college and learn all she could about the world
around her. Gladys stated that she was actually the only child to graduate
college in her family. This left a big impression on her and she was able to
save and send all four of her children to college later on in her life. Gladys also stated that only two of the four
children graduated and the two that did are now a doctor and a pediatrician.
Gladys stated that she loved teaching and worked in an all-African American
school for twenty plus years until integration and then moved to Washington DC
and continued as a teacher there until she retired in her sixties. Gladys stated
how thrilled she was to be able to pick what school to work in once she moved
where culture and color did not matter anymore (Hughes, personal communication,
2015).
Gladys can recall her time growing
up in Hamlet the dominant culture being the Caucasian race and really there was
not much communication with them when she went into town. They were taught by
their families at a very young age of how to walk into to town and what to say
and what not to say when they were there to the Caucasian race. They were
reminded to purchase items and leave immediately. Gladys stated she would walk
with her head proud of who she was. She simply said, “They would ignore us and
we would ignore them”. For the few times they did speak in town some were very
nice but Gladys stated that most of them did not speak at all, especially when
paying for items at the stores there in town. Within her subgroup of African
Americans communication was all about the community, church, and the local
stores there. She stated that sometimes there were issues within the church
between them, because some did not believe in the Methodist religion and wanted
their own church to create their own subculture within the already strong
culture there. After a few years, Gladys stated that several African Americans
soon branched out and opened up their own churches within the community but
this took many meetings and many years she remembers. Gladys stated effective
communication sometimes was hard for her because her father and grandfather had
money and could just handle it better than most in her community. The education
Gladys received along with her siblings made them able to get better jobs and
finish college whereas, most of the culture there could not afford to do that. Gladys
said making friends at that point was sometimes hard for her. She stated that
most people in the community would not let their children play with her because
of their so called status of having more money than most she felt. Gladys said,
“This always bothered me because I felt like everyone else”.
In the United States today, the
biggest difference in Gladys Hughes life today is in terms of religion as
compared to her childhood by being able to go to any church she wants to she
stated. Gladys said, “I love being able to visit all my children and go to
their churches where they live and talk to all the different types of cultures
and people there.” Gladys also stated that she love being able to travel out of
town and attend any church that she wants to and talked about how great of a
feeling this is which make her very happy. She stated that she also knows that
her father would be very happy to see this now as he spoke on it often when he
was alive. He would tell her that community churches will be coming together as
one and I hope you are alive long enough to experience it. (Hughes, personal
communication, 2015). In an article by Loller, who did a study about this very
thing in the United States, said that in some areas we still have a long way to
go with coming together as one within the churches. He states that nonwhite
congregations make up twenty percent of the Southern Baptist nearly 51,000
congregations in 2012, which is the most recent year statistic that are
available from the denomination. What has him concerned is less than one
percent of those congregations are multi-ethnic. The vast majority of these
Baptist still attend a church predominately filled by people of their own
culture, be it African American, Caucasian, or Hispanic. After Loller conducted
a phone survey of 1,000 churchgoers in general he found that only 37 percent of
these churchgoers thought their churches needed to become more ethnically
diverse (Loller, 2015). When I asked Gladys how she felt about this, she stated
that in the past fifteen years that she has never felt like she was not welcome
or not a part of any church she went to and that we have very integrated
multicultural churches here and she loves it. She stated that even when
traveling to see her children she has never felt out of place in recent years.
Gladys stated that this subgroup of church people of all cultures and races all
talk about the joy and blessings that god bring them in their lives and nothing
else.
Gladys stated that when it comes to
work, that in the United States today the biggest difference was being able to
work in any school she wanted and to teach any race and it not be a big deal.
Racial issues would still come up she said, but not that often or to the extent
of how it was when she was a little girl. Gladys also said, “I watched it get
better over time and it was so exciting for me”. She realizes that she is in a subculture of
being a lighter skinned African American, and still feels like she is part of a
whole culture like our books states with the same sense that a subdivision is a
part of but no less important that the whole city (Jandt, 2013).
Ending our interview, I asked Gladys
what were some of the most significant differences in day-to-day life in the
past versus today? Gladys answered with so many, I had a hard time writing them
all down. Her biggest memory that is most significant from when she was a
little girl was not until adulthood for her. Gladys stated that she could not
ride the buses growing up with Caucasian people and if they did get on a bus
that had Caucasian people on it they had to give up their seat and stand in the
back and not speak a word. She also sated if the bus got full, she would have
to get off of the bus even if it was not her stop yet. She loves the fact that
now she can ride a bus or metro into town together with no issues and they can
talk among each other throughout the ride about anything and everything. She
stated that the buses and metro is filled with all types of multicultural
people and she fits right in. The hardest part was learning all the languages
that people spoke from Spanish, to Korean, Chinese, and some French. Riding
with people who did not speak English is the only thing that made it hard for
her to communicate Gladys said. Gladys loves the fact that every one of the
races and ethnic backgrounds can go to school together whereas back when she
grew up everything was segregated and she had to go to an all-black school. She
stated another big difference is being able to try on clothes and shoes in any
store that she wants. Until she became a young adult this was not allowed. Not
only could they not try on clothing they could not return anything that did not
fit so she was very limited in what she could wear when she was younger. She
stated that she loves being able to talk to the store clerks and ask questions
whereas, she would have to walk in with her head down get what she wanted and
leave when she was younger. It was her
way of life not to speak to anyone in town unless they were African American
like us Gladys stated. Gladys also
stated how she loves going into shoe stores and buy shoes with trying them on
because most of her shoes growing up were either handmade or passed down from
her siblings or other family members. She stated that she loves being able to
eat anywhere she wants because growing up as a child this was not allowed and
they could not communicate with anyone outside of their community when they
would go into town. She remembers having big cookouts in her community but not
being able to go to any sit down place in town to eat. Gladys said that she loves that all her kids
and grandchildren can go to any school they want whereas when she grew up there
was only one school that was all African American and it went from grades
kindergarten to twelve (Hughes, personal communication, 2015).
Gladys ended the conversation with
telling me that she is glad that interracial dating is more accepted and she
loved me like a daughter. She stated when she was growing up if you dated out
of your race or culture you would have been run out of your community or even
worse shot and killed. She stated that she was thinking about taking a Spanish
class in the spring to help her communicate more with people in her swim class
and with people on the buses because she wants to communicate with them better.
She also closed with telling me that she feels we still have a long way to go
for total acceptance of different cultures and subgroups. She feels that it is
and has gotten better in time, and is sad that she won’t be around to see if
come full circle which she is hoping one day that is does.
References
Jandt, F.E.
(2013). An introduction to intercultural
communication: Identities in a global
Community (7th
ed.). Thousand Oaks, CA: Sage.
Loller, T. (2015,
February 5). Southern Baptist leaders call for integrated churches. South
Florida Times. P.
5A.
Marti, G. (2010).
The Religious Racial integration of African Americans into Diverse Churches.
Journal
for the Scientific Study of Religion, 49(2). 201-217.
Doi:10.1111/j.1468-5906.2010.01503.x
Olatunji, B. O.,
Tomarken, A., & Zhao, M. (2014). Effects of Exposure to Sterotype Cues on
Contamination Aversion and Avoidance in African
Americans. Journal of Social &
Clinical Psychology, 33(3). 229-249. Doi:10.1521/jscp.2014.33.3.229
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